So yes. I did it. I left Chile on perhaps the most important date of the year. I got a lot of comments about this, that it was unpatriotic, that I was a "traitor", etc. But it didn't really bother me because I knew I was going to have an awesome time in Argentina, and that I did. My friend M. has been doing the Peace Corps in Paraguay for the past two years and we've been trying to plan a trip for awhile now. Her time in Paraguay is up in December, so we decided that it was going to be September or never. The province of Jujuy, Argentina is a relatively easy bus ride from Paraguay and I planned dates so that the plane ticket for me wasn't too overpriced due to the holiday.
I will recap our trip in a later post, but first I'd like to make some observations about Northern Argentina. I've never been to Buenos Aires (unless you count the 5 hours I spent sleeping in the airport there), so these observations are not about BBAA or any other part of Argentina, for that matter. And I was only there for six days so obviously I didn't have time to closely observe or analyze the culture.
Anyway, without further ado...
1. Siesta is observed. From 1:30 to 5:00pm most stores (with the exception of grocery stores) are closed. In Salta, which is a large city, the restaurants luckily stayed open, but we were eating lunch at the market in San Salvador de Jujuy and they closed and locked the gates right after we left at 1:35.
2. There is a SERIOUS lack of small change. Let me tell you, I thought Chile had a problem. It is WAY worse in N. Argentina. No matter where we were (grocery store, restaurant, pharmacy), if we tried to break a bill larger than a $20 the person sighed and rolled their eyes and asked us for smaller bills. One of M.'s friends, D., tried to break a large bill at a big pharmacy chain and they refused to sell him the item because they didn't have the change. Also, a lot of the bills are really old. They're ripped and taped together. Also, if they're missing the security strip, they won't be accepted. Some placed won't accept ripped bills either, which is obviously a problem, because a vast majority look like they come from Peron's time in office.
3. Now, on a more positive note, the people are really friendly. I had to remind myself to get rid of my Santiago gruffness and smile and say hi to people. People waved to us on the road, they were willing to answer our questions (some more accurately than others) and seemed really interested us, but not in a "look there's some tourists, let's take advantage of them!" way. This could be because we were the only tourists in one of the villages we stayed in and also because we were in rural areas for the most part. I think that no matter what country you're in, people from the campo are friendlier.
4. Cubierto fee. At almost every restaurant we went to, there was a cubierto fee, which is a fee they charge you for using their plates, basically. Or for sitting in their chairs. I don't really know, it kind of baffled me. In Salta, it was around $5 Argentine pesos per person, in the other smaller towns around $2.50. As far as I could tell, this didn't replace the tip.
5. Natural Gas Stations. Some cars in Argentina run on Natural Gas. We made the mistake of turning into one of these thinking it was a normal gas station (gas=nafta in Argentina) until we saw all of the cars' hoods up and the attendant looked at us funny and told us to go down two more blocks to the nafta station.
6. Traffic lights. The traffic lights turn yellow before they turn green (in addition to turning yellow before red). M., who did a lot of the driving, said this was useful when driving a standard because it gave you time to shift.
7. Completo isn't a completo. So the last night in Salta I was by myself and looking for something familiar to eat after I had eaten new things all week. I went to a restaurant and saw they had a sandwhich called lomito completo, which in Chile would be a steak sandwich with mayonnaise, sauerkraut, tomatoes and salsa americana (kind of like relish). I was about to order it, when I asked the waiter what completo meant, just in case. Completo, in Argentina, means with ham, cheese, egg, tomatoes and maybe something else that I'm forgetting.
8. The accent is hard to understand, but funny to imitate. Chileans love to imitate the Argentine accent. The ll, which in Chile is pronounced kind of like y in English, is pronounced kind of like a sh in Argentina. So take the word parrilla (which means a barbecue) is pronounced parr-EE-ya in Chile, but in Argentina it's parr-EE-sha. The y is also pronounced like this. I spoke the best Spanish in our group (most Peace Corps volunteers in Paraguay speak Guaraní, not Spanish), but I still had to ask a lot of people to repeat themselves and constantly remind myself about the different pronunciation. Also, to make things even MORE complicated, Argentinians use vos instead of tu and conjugate the verb differently. Instead of ¿tienes sencillo? (do you have small change?) they say ¿tenés sencillo? Luckily, they use this conjugation in El Salvador as well, and so I am kind of used to it.
For anyone who's spent time in Argentina, I'd love to hear your comments. Is it like this in the whole country? Am I way off my rocker? Let me know!
19 comments:
Yep. That cubierto fee is annoying! I've been rudely told before that it doesn't replace teh tip. It happened to me in Italy too and I wonder if it's something the Italian immigrants took over with them to Argentina? Who knows?
The change scarcity is a national problem but I read that it is worse in BsAs because the buses only accept coins and you have to pay the machines on the buses with exact change or it doesn't work. Smart system that one.
I thought people in BsAs were a little arrogant, but I thought people in Mendoza were like Chileans, in other words, very curious about me but in a way more open than Chileans.
Aside from the part about the siesta - they definitely do not nap in Capital Federal - I think you're pretty on point with everything else. It's funny reading your observations because they are a lot of the same things that struck me when I first started living there and then got used to.
And the moneda/change thing is a serious problem especially in Capital. The government introduced all these new fancy 1peso coins for the bicentennial but people still continue to hoard small change. For someone who had to take buses around the city all day this was such a pain in the arse. I have a zipper thing in my wallet that holds change and I would open it very slowly so shop keepers wouldn't hear the jangling because they would and did call me out when I would lie and say I didn't have any coins.
And yeah, the cubierto thing does kind of suck but there are still a lot of places that don't have them. The natural gas thing tripped me out the first time I went with my boyfriend to fill up his tank in the province. We had to get out of the car and have an attendant fill up for us. And I LOVE THE ACCENT! It was hard for me to get used to at first but I really enjoy how it sounds.
Did you go to Paraguay? I hear there's not really anything there to see but that's awesome that your friend's friends in Peace Corp speak guarani. My boyfriend's mom is paraguayan and her and her brothers and sisters all speak guarani when they are together. Last time I was there they taught me how to say "I love you" but I've forgotten since.
I´ve been in south Argentina, in Neuquen and Bariloche, and what you say, happens there too, except for the small change problem, or maybe I didn´t notice.
When they heard you, did they notice inmediatly that you were gringa? Did the notice a Chilean accent in your spanish?
Argentina is a great country, and I love their asados and "facturas"
Sara: good theory on the cubierto thing. yeah, one restaurant we went to we didn't leave a tip because the service was horrible, and as we left they told us that the cubierto fee didn't replace the tip. and we were like, sorry, but we're not leaving one. haha.
Renee: Thanks for commenting! I knew you'd have some insight. That sucks about the small change. It was so annoying the six days I was there, I can't imagine living like that. I actually ended up with a new peso coin...now I feel bad. Maybe I should send it back?? Haha. I didn't go to Paraguay, but I kind of want to now just to learn Guarani. I only learned how to say "Let's go!" and "hey!" but it's a cool language.
Marmo: It was pretty obvious we were tourists! Haha there were five of us in a rental car with large backpacks. When I was by myself one of the hostal owners asked why I had a "funny" accent. I told her I lived in Chile and she said "ahhh, con razon." In the North there is also a lot of indigenous influence so the people are darker skinned, which made us gringos stick out even more.
Also, what's a factura??
Las facturas:
http://tusrecetas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/facturashn4.jpg
Son un número indeterminado de pastelitos, medialunas y galletas, que se sirven en los cafés. En Chile normalmente se pueden ver las medialunas (las he visto en locales por todo Chile, aunque no sé por qué sólo ese tipo de factura ha llegado, tal vez copiaron sólo una receta xD).
Son muy ricas, y lo que más me llamó la atención en Argentina, era que a uno le ofrecían facturas y te traían como 10 tipos diferentes. Debe ser mucho trabajo, pero son muy ricas.
I really liked Argentina. I've only been to Bariloche and Mendoza, though...not the capital. The people in those areas seemed extremely friendly and open to newcomers. I'd like to try out BA, but a lot of people have been telling me horror stories, lol.
I never noticed the cubierto...but I think they might not have them in the far south or in the far north of the country. Is this only a BA thing? Seems like a pain, to be honest.
I love the Argentinian accent. I first learned Spanish at age 12 from a woman who had an Argentinian accent, so it kind of stuck. My accent now is kind of a Chilean-Argentinian hybrid.
My friends from Temuco didn't like how I pronounced my "ll" and my host brother once told me to "speak like a normal person"...but I think he was being a little facetious.
Now I speak more like a temuquence, and my Santigueno friends think it's "hilarious".
But, back to the point, the Argentine accent is beautiful to my ears.
I also think it's really cool that the Peace Corps volunteers speak Guaraní!! Did they teach you anything while you were with them?
Marmo: Thanks! Yes, the medialunas were TO DIE FOR. Nothing like I've ever tasted in Santiago.
Anuuayim: Actually, I was in Northern Argentina. Throughout the post I say that because I've never been to BA, and I didn't want to make generalizations about a part of a country I've never been to. I was in Salta and the Province of Jujuy. I can imagine your host brother saying that. Chileans love to make fun of the Argentine accent. I personally have never noticed a difference in accent within Chile, I guess a few words are different in the north/south/Santiago. Maybe I just haven't paid attention.
Temuco accent beats Santiaguino and Argentinian todo el rato in a heartbeat
yea the natural gas cars thing is pretty nuts. definitely wouldn't want to be driving one of those anywhere near a flame.
Hi! I am glad to hear you enjoyed your trip! I wrote you before to ask you about teaching, I am a half-spanish/half-chilean living in Ireland, but I was over for the 18. I have been in Argentina and noticed that the people was really nice as well, but I was in the country as well, so it might be different in Buenos Aires. The small change, as you say, it´s a problem in Chile as well and it´s really annoying. Just in my last visit, I tried to pay with a ten lucas bill in an internet café in Providencia, and the woman at the till didnt have any change, so i had to go and look for change myself, walked a few cuadras and came back to her with my sencillo. Fortunately she was nice enough to trust I'd be back!
As for the accent, it's very popular with spanish girls, lots of us go crazy when we hear a nice sweet argentinian guy talking to us! Anyway, it's amazing how many differences can two neighbour countries have, and also how different south american countries are from Spain...I have visited my family in Chile four times now, but sometimes it's still a bit of a cultural shock, and I don't always know what they are saying either! I think I couldnt understand someone speaking fast and coa style at all!
Well, just wanted to comment and tell you that I love the blog! Keep it up!
En Bariloche debes tener cuidado y nucna preguntar cuanto valen las cosas, debes calcular mas o menos y pagar, sino te cobrarán demás.
Wow, I totally read it the other way around! I don't know how I missed that, lol. Anyway, sounds like you had a good time!
loved your pictures! i've never been to Salta, but your pictures definitely make me want to go.
I've been to Buenos Aires 3 times and the traffic lights turn yellow there before they turn green, too. I thought that was cool/scary since the taxi drivers take off once it turns yellow so I don't get what purpose it serves if people take it as green.
And I agree with Sarah about the cubierto coming with the Italians. In France and Italy, I had to pay that fee, too.. A lot of restaurants will call it a bread fee or a sitting outside fee or just a table fee. I do remember paying almost double the price at one cafe because I sat outside. That's definitely something to get used to.
Hello Abby! Thanks for posting about your experience Argentina! I stumbled across your blog when I was first looking into moving to Chile. I'm actually flying into Buenos Aires and spending about two weeks in Central/Northern Argentina before finally settling in Santiago to get my TEFL certification. I may shoot you an email sometime closer to my departure date with a couple of questions about Chile and such.... That is, if you don't mind. :)
Marmo: What's a Temuco accent?? I would like a recording, please. Haha. Just kidding. But I am interested in the way accent differs throughout Chile because its something I've never noticed before.
KM: Word.
Fernando: Gracias por el dato, lo tomare en cuento cuando vaya a Barlioche!
Luisa: Yes! I remember you. That's funny about how Spanish women thing Argentine men's accent is sexy. Haha. And I guess you're right, Chileans are hard to understand if you're not used to it. And coa is another story, I can BARELY understand that.
Isabel: Thanks! And interesting about the cubiertos. I think restaurants will do anything to get more money out of you. But imagine if they started charging a bread fee here in Chile? I think there would be a HUGE backlash...
Katie: thanks for stopping by! Have fun in Argentina and let us know what your impressions were. And by all means, write me an email. I'm happy to help.
Luisa: I'm so sorry I accidentally deleted your second comment, which read:
Yeah, we do have "terraza fee" (sitting outside) in Spain too. Sometimes, the prices will vary if you sit outside, in a table inside, and in the bar, being the bar the cheapest option. It's crazy!
I'm so sorry!
But anyway, that's so strange for me, but I guess it makes sense. They should charge less for the badly placed tables by the bathroom or the kitchen...haha!
Most of these definitely apply to Mendoza too (I spent a semester there & loved it, can't wait to go back!). Mendocinos are religious about their siestas - everything shuts down. The change issue is also a problem there, and I usually would go to the grocery store to break anything bigger than a $20. I've also heard what Sara said, that in BsAs the buses only accept change, so people go crazy trying to get some. In Mendoza the buses take a card that you can put money on, so it's not as bad, but still.
What else - I never saw a "cubierto" charge in Mendoza, or a natural gas station, but the traffic lights do cycle yellow before green. Although to me the most surprising thing about the traffic lights was that people view them as a suggestion rather than a requirement to stop.
You're right about the accent, but it's also somewhat more complicated, as the Buenos Aires accent is noticably different from the accent in Mendoza. I can't say for sure about the other areas of the country, but I think generally people from Mendoza see a big split between BsAs and the "interior"/"provinces" (ie. anything other than BsAs), in terms of accent and general culture. I didn't pick up on any of this until I had spent some time in the country, but after a while it was definitely there. The porteño accent uses more like an "sh" sound: "yo" would be pronounced like the English "show." But in Mendoza, it's more like the "j" sound in "just." (Sorry I don't know the actual IPA symbols to use here.) So even though both of these fit within the "Argentine" accent, there really are different variations of that. I guess it's like in English, where there is a general "American" accent (as opposed to British), but still (of course) there are distinct regional accents too.
And finally, you have to try some facturas (especially alfajores) next time ... and they go best with an afternoon mate!
I'm glad you enjoyed your trip - I've never been to the north of the country, but I'd love to go someday.
Accents change quite a lot in every country, for instance Norway has quite a lot of different dialects, mainly because people were isolated in different valleys for centuries until somebody found oil and managed to bring Norway into modern times in the past 30 years.
Chile and Argentina are no exception being such big and scarcely populated countries. Dialects exists in all colors and shapes (and I don't even want to get started about the US dialects because I will never end).
Being chilean born and having being in Argentina several times, I would say there are two very hard to understand accents: in Chile it is the accent outside of Temuco (more than in Temuco), and in Argentina it is the "cordobes" accent, in Cordoba.
Outside Temuco there is a big population of people who speaks mapudungun as a first language and "chilean" as a second. Their accent is very distinctive, I think that is what marmo is describing when talking about the "temucano" accent. In Cordoba they just speak kinda slow with some strange accelerations and word liaisons that I really don't get.
Since we are now on this topic, in Chile the accent changes quite a lot. And I would even say there are several dialects in Chile (other than the already confusing "chilean"). If you go to the central valleys, you will find a very peculiar accent/dialect which most people in Chile identify with being "campechano" (colloquially called "huaso accent"). It is a very funny dialect, although it can be very hard to get. If you go to the north you will find that people speak slow. Specially in the mountains and mining towns. In the southern part of Chile, you will find the famous "chilote". Which is a very funny dialect but again hard to understand if you are not a 100% native chilean.
In Argentina you will also find several different dialects, depending on where you are. But a rough way to classify them is by province. Almost every province in Argentina comes with a different dialect. Particularly interesting are the dialects in Entre Rios/Misiones in the north or the dialects in Tierra del Fuego (this applies both to the chilean side and the argentinean side).
So, if you want to hear dialects in Chile or in Argentina I recommend you that you get out of Santiago and visit the rest of the country. Santiago is just a metropolis without much charm other than being the capital city.
Accents change quite a lot in every country, for instance Norway has quite a lot of different dialects, mainly because people were isolated in different valleys for centuries until somebody found oil and managed to bring Norway into modern times in the past 30 years.
Chile and Argentina are no exception being such big and scarcely populated countries. Dialects exists in all colors and shapes (and I don't even want to get started about the US dialects because I will never end).
Being chilean born and having being in Argentina several times, I would say there are two very hard to understand accents: in Chile it is the accent outside of Temuco (more than in Temuco), and in Argentina it is the "cordobes" accent, in Cordoba.
Outside Temuco there is a big population of people who speaks mapudungun as a first language and "chilean" as a second. Their accent is very distinctive, I think that is what marmo is describing when talking about the "temucano" accent. In Cordoba they just speak kinda slow with some strange accelerations and word liaisons that I really don't get.
Since we are now on this topic, in Chile the accent changes quite a lot. And I would even say there are several dialects in Chile (other than the already confusing "chilean"). If you go to the central valleys, you will find a very peculiar accent/dialect which most people in Chile identify with being "campechano" (colloquially called "huaso accent"). It is a very funny dialect, although it can be very hard to get. If you go to the north you will find that people speak slow. Specially in the mountains and mining towns. In the southern part of Chile, you will find the famous "chilote". Which is a very funny dialect but again hard to understand if you are not a 100% native chilean.
In Argentina you will also find several different dialects, depending on where you are. But a rough way to classify them is by province. Almost every province in Argentina comes with a different dialect. Particularly interesting are the dialects in Entre Rios/Misiones in the north or the dialects in Tierra del Fuego (this applies both to the chilean side and the argentinean side).
So, if you want to hear dialects in Chile or in Argentina I recommend you that you get out of Santiago and visit the rest of the country. Santiago is just a metropolis without much charm other than being the capital city.
Post a Comment